Dave, what would you say is the most important issue to you right now and for the immediate future (say 1 year)?

Is it one of the big 3 you listed above?

Or is it the economy, energy independence, education, homeland security or one of the more pressing issues at the moment?

My answer to your question kinda depends on what you think is important right now.

Pick 1 issue.

I'm voting for Obama because he loves bacon.

I want to be real careful not to piss you off here Dave, but while people are losing their jobs, their life savings, their homes, your most important priority is making sure no-one inpinges on your right to kill animals at leisure? Dude, I'm not faulting your hobbies, but you voting should be an instance of you putting aside your own personal preferences, and participating in a movement that helps make society a better place, not just your personal weekends. I'm not sure any of your big three put social responsibility before personal likes and dislikes.

My vote would be for Obama, not because I personally will be better off - I'm running a business that will probably end up paying more taxes under his plan. But the impact on me personally is less important than voting for a candidate who I believe will bring the most positive change to the most people in the country, even if I don't happen to be in that group. Isn't that what it means when you say you love your country?

Dave, I'm working on a response...but I do have one question meanwhile---how much do you care about what the rest of the world thinks about us and our nation's leadership?
(I know, we don't live there, so why do we care what they think? To me, it's important how other nations perceive us because we are a part of a global economy so we need someone who will work well with others. We also need to play well with others, a la Loyal 77ers because there will be times we need someone to have our back, whether it is catching terrorists before they set foot on our soil or for reinforcements when we need to keep the peace somewhere)
(Just a thought....I'm sure there are more rattling around up there jockeying in line to get out)

To me it is important that people have a valid reason* for getting their butts to the polls and voting (*valid does not equal someone hating Ay-rabs or disliking material that sheets and tents can be made of). It's their call why they voted--I just hate to see a vote wasted when centuries of men and women fought both here and abroad to ensure we all had that right....

Yep, bleeding heart liberal--but one who respects that others will vote different ways than me and for different reasons.

I think Scara, Dave just put guns /the 2nd amendment on the back burner. And put the economy & energy independence as his #1 & #2 issues in this election.

I'm going to base my recommendations on these new "1's" since, to me, if a voter hasn't decided by now, they should base on their vote on most important issue to them now and vote on that.

If Dave's big issue was guns or "no gun control" this topic would be pointless. He'd be either choosing McCain or Bob Barr.

I'll get back to my answer a little later Dave, when I have some more time.

Still working on the serious stuff....but Dave, how do you feel about pie?

Anyone who is brave enough to let the world know that he loves sweet potato pie (as opposed to the more demographic friendly apple or cherry) is a candidate that I know is not someone who will kowtow to the enemy...

Like I said, working on the serious stuff...

Another more real issue? Women and equal pay. As a female, that's an important issue to me. Dave, I'm sure you'd like to have a sugar mama pay your bills while you enjoy some leisure time---hard to do if she's making less money than the other VPs in her firm, no?

Realistically, I know that half the promises out there are equivalent to the senior class prez candidate promising better cafeteria food...not going to happen--at least not without Congress (or school board) backing them up. So I also look at integrity of a candidate.
Hard to do with politicians, but it bothers me that McCain traded in his original wife for the current model. Then again, politics attracts larger than life personalities who have shady bedroom ethics....

Dave...
took a much deserved vacation...thanks for noticing I was gone...

I don't think that we need to kiss up to other nations to have them on our side---we just need better leadership. But we do need to have the respect of other nations, because we have been picking up the check for keeping the peace all over the world for too many years now (in our unipolar world power role).
(I see us as the nation that many nations have put up with like they put up with the obnoxious rich uncle because he buys cool Christmas gifts--and it frustrates me because our potential is greater than that)

Having a leader that other nations respect might get them to pony up a little so we have some disposable income for things such as, oh, education, decent infrastructure, healthcare (not necessarily socialized medicine, but helping out hospitals in areas such as NOLA or inner cities throughout the nation with grant money so that our people can be healthy and productive)...instead of pouring our billions of tax dollars into nation building in Iraq.
(don't anyone jump all over me--I support our soldiers, I just don't love the idea that our money--and it was our money--was spent the way it was over there)
As a college student it makes me want to throw up my ramen when I realize how many people could have their tuition paid with that same money. The more educated our citizens are, the more likely we are to remain a world power...cure cancer, invent more kickass weaponry to hunt deer with, invent new technology for the porn and adult toy industry, whatever...

We need to be further up on the education and healthcare lists (a nation of our status should not have infant mortality rates like we do, for ex)

I'm not at the point where I'm convincing you---and that's obvious from my postings. I just want you to go into that booth and not have to eanie meanie miney mo it...

I will say that based on my own research both candidates feel the same about the immigration issue--which is why that has barely been brought up this year.

Still a work in progress here---but while I admit it's nice to be right, it's also nice knowing that someone has your back when you need them to...

The problem comes down to the fact that anyone who would get everyone's vote is too smart to run/is making much more money in their current, less criticized existence...

As a Gen Xer, I am cognizant of the fact that it will become harder and harder for us to find candidates who did not at least dabble in drugs...

And yes, the cocaine issue is a problem, but so is Cindy's prescription forging/pill stealing/popping problem of her own...is she able to handle the stress of being First Lady? We're not voting for her, but if she crumbles under the scrutiny (a la Betty Ford), would that affect McCain's ability to lead?

We also know way too much about our current Presidents and/or candidates....way back in the day they had ignorance is bliss on their side (oh, and only 1/3 of the nation with suffrage rights)...half of our former Presidents would not make it to the primary today (Lincoln and JFK alone--between health issues, womanizing, and rumors of gay relationships)

And I wasn't trying to insinuate that you NEEDED a sugarmama....but most red blooded American men I know wouldn't yell at woman who insisted on picking up the bill once in a while...whether it was for dinner or for an immaculately restored General Lee...

Honestly, If i knew it wouldn't be a waste of a vote, id vote for bob barr.

As it stands right now i have to go with Obama. He's the only one talking about a timetable to bring our troops home. Having been to iraq, and communicating on a daily basis with friends from my army days who are currently on their 4th tour in that hellhole, I have to go with the candidate who wants to end this bullshit in the middle east.

That's my number one priority right now. The War and how soon we can get it over with. McCain said he's willing to spent another 100 years in iraq if thats what it takes to win. We can't win. It's an unwinnable war against an enemy that we can't defeat because it changes from week to week who the enemy actually is. It's vietnam all over again. If the draft was still in effect, then this country would look a lot like it did in the 60's. Kent State University all over again.

In short, Obama has a plan to bring troops home. That wins him my vote. we'll see what issues come up four years from now.

As a liberal, I'm pulling strongly for Obama, but I used to rather like McCain, and like most American, I admire his service to his country.

I say used to like him... up until he got so dirty in this campaign. I think he has lost control of it, and apparently the GOP has strong-armed McCain into lowering himself to wallow in negative attacks instead of promoting his position on substantive issues. This, and his disastrous pick of Palin have really tuned me off of McCain.

I also think McCain is completely out of touch with average Americans. The way he sneered during the debate "congratulations Joe, you're rich" as if the idea of a quarter million a year is not impressive. For someone who can't remember how many houses he owns, that might be true.

McCain has no experience as an average American. He was born into the military and went almost straight to congress after his service. He never worked at McDonalds, never had to pay student loans, never had to worry about getting health insurance, etc, etc.

He has stood up for good during his career, but he has also been too inline with the philosophy of the last eight years. At this point in history, we need open-minded wisdom, not entrenched political experience.

Vote Obama.

An old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He explained that the battle is between two ' wolves' inside us all.

One wolf is Evil - It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other wolf is Good - It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather "Which wolf wins?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed".

That said, I'm tired of feeding the Evil Wolf. As an American, I've had enough of the bullshit, and I'm ready for a serious change. Although I'm deathly afraid of a Socialist regime, it's where we're headed anyway under either candidate's tenure in office. All of the plans on the table to heal our economy involve some form of "bailout", "welfare", or government assistance. All of them. The difference between Barry and Johnny, is one candidate is planning to use a lubricant, and the other wants to go at wearing a sandpaper condom. This is why I'm voting for Sen. Obama.

I think that my biggest problem with McCain is that when the prisoner torture stuff came to the fore front a few years ago, he was not leading the charge of condemnation. In my little head it would reason that a man that was tortured would be one of the loudest protesters against the whole concept! I am generally not for passing more laws, however I feel McCain and others should have passed a law that said this and anything that resembles it or the concept of torture is not permissible in any fashion for any reason.

As for the issue of somebody having tried drugs, that doesn’t bother me. If the person was addicted and strung that is a different story. It is hard enough to battle with the inner turmoil of addictions while punching the clock at a normal job, having to battle the addiction in one of the most stressful careers and professions ever conceived is something all together different. If it was just short term recreational drug use, that does not bother me. How many of us have never done anything stupid while in our 20’s, we knew that driving drunk was stupid, unsafe not to mention illegal. How many can say that they never even once drove while just a little lit / tipsy or blasted. To me recreational drug use (Pot / Coke not Smack, Meth, Crack, Angel Dust etc...) is not much different than getting drunk with your friends. It’s not my thing anymore, but I am still cool with it if it floats your boat.

OK, here's the clincher.

McCain's middle name is "Sidney."

Who in their right mind could vote for someone named John SIDNEY McCain?

Dave, Jonniewalker's quote was "To me recreational drug use (Pot / Coke not Smack, Meth, Crack, Angel Dust etc...)"

he separated them.....because I think most of us would agree that there is no such thing as recreational usage of those 4...you pretty much become their bitch...

as for the wolves...I've always loved the quote but I agree....mine look like well fed twins some days...

Dave,

I promised I'd weigh in. Sorry it took so long.

Okay, you asked for a compelling argument for one candidate.
But truth be told, I really don't think there is one that will truly sway you.
After all, you're an independent thinker.
You've done the research and still you're on the fence.

As it stands, you're not impressed with either candidate.
Not swayed by their platforms, economic policies, health proposals, energy plans or vision for America's future.
Not influenced by their rhetoric, slogans, speeches, goals, hopes or big ideas.

Since that's the case, I really think you should vote for John McCain.

Dave,

I'm still lurking, formulating what to say. I promised myself that I would not submit my verbose drivel without thinking through the specifics.

For now, let me say that I am sitting in exactly the same position as you ... I'm not really inspired by either candidate.

I'll be back.

Tim, if you haven't been inspired
my advice to you is the same as what I wrote Dave.
Vote McCain.

Baier -

I won't vote by default. When I arrive at the votong booth, I will know what I am going to do and why I am going to do it ... else I won't be there.

I don't know if that is what you are suggesting, but I throw that out just so everyone knows where I am coming from. I suspect that Dave is thinking along the same lines, but I won't speak for him on that.

I have to ask you, though, why are you telling us (and others, perhaps?) to vote for McCain if we are 'uninspired'? Why not Obama?

Tim – I don't see it as voting by default. I see it as choosing the one you're more comfortable with.

If that's a cop out, shoot me with Dave's rifle.

With President McCain you know what you're going to get.
No, not W part 3. Or the McSame horseshit.
But not a maverick either.
He is a competent Senator and he knows how to work legislation.
He may do good things but he's never going to do great things.
Why?
He doesn't talk in any way that inspires me or makes me think he's got greatness still left in him.

And he's up against a guy who I think does.
Obama may fall flat on his ass and be Hoover-Carter but I am willing to give him that chance.
Because for me, the alternative is not much different than what I've had to vote for since 1988.

I don't agree 100% with every policy Obama has and every goal, but he says things I think great leaders should. And he says it in a way I haven't heard before.
A lot of people are turned off by this.
The whole "Yes we can" speech back in January I think wigged lots of people out. Maybe scared some folks.
One of the biggest problems I think people have with Obama is that he thinks he can change the world.
But the people that think that way, are often the ones who do.

I realize none of what I just wrote is based on hard facts or issues. It's based on gut and instinct.

Honestly, if I was talking to someone other than you or Dave (2 very smart, articulate, clearly independent thinkers) I might talk issues or policy. But the more I thought about what to say, the more I realized if Obama hasn't won you or Dave over yet he probably won't.
So, you should vote for someone else.

Course maybe someone from your childhood can convince you?

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cc65ed650d

Baeir -

I wrote a long, rambling, long and rambling note last night in response to you and Dave. If I post it, I think you'll find it interesting. The problem is, after reading it, I'm not sure that I really say anything new. There's no real insight, nothing real provocative and no new issues really presented or resolved. It's just really a braindump of where my mind is at on this election and how I am approaching the vote. I've been holding on to it until I figure out if I really want to post it.

Regarding the video. Awesome. It's these kind of videos and use of mass media that I can really appreciate. It's a more positive message for the country and its future. Attack ads don't achieve anything permanent. I honestly believe they will sway some voters with this video.

BTW - Ron Howard is great. The Fonz needs some practice, although I like how he referenced the 'I was wro...' Happy Days episode. Classic.

Tim - Would it sway your vote if I told you they're selling T-shirts now with the obama logo made with donut & bacon.
They donut is the circle and the waves are the bacon.

If you want to vote based on bacon & donuts and creativity in marketing, you got to vote O & B.

Just a dumb thought.

Post the rant, or edit it down. I would love to read it.

Gee, Baier, I never said it was a rant. I guess I've set some expectations with the YBNBY readers.

I don't think I can edit it down, but I'll give it another read and possibly post.

OK, this is ugly-long … so bear with me. I took a completely different approach to addressing this question. It requires time and a soapbox. Here goes …

Baierman - Thanks for responding to my question. To be honest, what you wrote in response is as good a testament (at least to me) for Obama and against McCain as I've heard.

You mentioned that if Obama hasn't won me over, he probably never will. My response: McCain hasn't won me over either. Being from Arizona, that's a pretty strong statement. He was a good Senator. As President, I fear that he will, again, make a good Senator.

I know I have proclaimed my vote already cast for McCain. I just haven't committed to driving to the polls yet.

I've said here several times before that I believe the President should be more of a leader for the people, rather than a traditional politician. A great leader inspires us to be proud of who we are and how we came to be a people united. A great leader has vision and knows how to convey it to the people. A great leader knows how to be compassionate; but hold a well-conceived, clear, firm stance on international issues. To that end, the only point to the pre-election debates and political wrangling is to establish what type of administration the person will assemble. In my book, those are the people that set the policies and govern the country. The President's time is reserved for leadership at home and representation abroad.

Nonetheless, I know that this is not reality and, more importantly for the sake of this discussion, it is not the way we as a people think when choosing a President. We get all worked up with who stands where on what issue and forget that what we need first and foremost is a great leader. Eight years ago, I really believed that W was saying the right words and could be a great leader. Then, an eight-year dose of never-ending, monotonous drivel written by some White House interns made me realize that it was all just more of the same. What happened to the inspiring words from the 2000 election? The vision was lost. The policies were misguided. The agenda was mismanaged. It all fell apart in the political machine.

Now given what I have just said, it's probably easier to see why I still haven't gassed up the Chevy for November 4th. It's hard to look at our two candidates with the rose-colored view I just painted of what I believe a President should be, and then go pull the handle for McCain. If you buy into my POTUS fantasy, Obama seems to be the right choice.

Here's what I'm thinking. Forget the speeches. Forget the political posturing. Forget the candidates' stand on abortion: Roe v Wade isn't going to be reversed anyway. Forget the candidates' stand on gun control: it would be political suicide to even mention that a person doesn't have a right to defend his own home. Restrictive gun control is not an agenda item in the near future. Forget gay marriage, or gay rights issues: they are at a standstill no matter who is elected.

What do we have left?

I see the following as major issues facing our country near-term.

1) The economy and, more importantly, the financial strength of our country.
2) The political cancer that has infected this country over the past few years and divided us as we search for whom to blame when it really doesn't matter.
3) The need to reassure the world that we take our role as a world leader seriously, but will not sit back and wait to be called upon to lead.
4) The need to reassure the world that we are a compassionate people, but will never tolerate being shit on.

OK, so where do I see each candidate on these issues ....

1) It’s the economy stupid. I can't even begin to discuss what I think is wrong with our economy and how it needs to be fixed, but I really believe that the answer lies in attacking four things:

- stabilize the banking industry; primarily mortgage lending
- minimize the horrendous job losses that are about to occur
- keep as much money as possible in people's pockets
- help the American people understand why we all had a hand in what has happened and what we can do to help prevent it from happening again

Other than the fundamental corrections that need to occur in order to get the banking industry moving again, fixing the economy is going to come down to the confidence of the American people. As long as the American people aren’t afraid of going bankrupt tomorrow, we won’t hoard money, but will continue to spend and invest. If we’re spending, small businesses are hiring. If we can reverse the cycle of job losses, confidence can be restored. Without this, the economy will never fully revive.

Keeping taxes low, stabilizing oil prices and creating jobs are all issues an administration can tackle, and are required in order to restore confidence. This needs to be a key objective of the next administration. Who’s better at this? Obama talks a good game, but when has he actually had extensive experience dealing with these issues? Does he have a reasonable plan for dealing with oil-related issues in our country? In my opinion, no … not as long as he isn’t willing to invest in oil drilling/production as well as alternative energies. The plan has to meet short term and long term goals. Will he keep taxes low? For some, yes. Will he create more jobs? Based on his record, this is a strength for Obama. So, what about McCain? Is he better at these issues? Honestly, I haven’t heard any new ideas from him regarding these issues. He’ll continue to keep taxes as low as he can for everyone. His plan (I believe) is to let Palin handle the energy-related issues (not necessarily a bad thing, BTW). And there really is no inspirational plan for creating jobs.

So who will inspire the most confidence in the American people; the key to getting back to a healthy economy? Who will take the time to help us understand why things got so out of hand and how we can be more financially responsible as a nation? Who can work better with Congress to put something in place to stabilize, and possibly reinvent, social security? I think the answer is likely Obama.

2) Divided we shall fall. What the hell happened? Why are the differences between Americans so much more divisive than in the past? We were a two-party system during the last election and things weren’t so divided in this country. Is it because nobody really believed Kerry/Edwards had a chance? That’s not the way I remember it. We were divided, sure, but not hostile. Is there more at stake now? Perhaps. But I’d argue that if it wasn’t for the economy, things are about the same. Aha! That’s the problem. We’re all in fear of economic collapse and we have nothing to show for the past four years. We’re still in Iraq. Al Qaeda is still a factor. Nothing has changed. Who’s to blame? Must be the Republicans; they’re the ones in office. Who else is Republican? John McCain. Throw the bum out!

This is ridiculous. Other than the complete lack of confidence anyone has left for W’s ability to lead, the Republican administration is no more responsible for this debacle than the Democratic Congress or, for that matter, the American people itself. Because of our fear of another Vietnam, we have handcuffed ourselves in dealing with challenges abroad. We continually go into everything half-ass; fearing public ridicule. And the public ridicule comes anyway because of failed planning and/or improper execution. The American people need to grow a pair. We need to get back to being decisive. Get deliberate, or sit on the sideline and accept the consequences. We should have been done with this five years and 50 billion dollars ago.

Our way of life? Very few of us live below our means. We spend, spend, spend. Want more, more, more. If there’s a problem, it must be the fault of the government. Or something like the government. Whatever it is, it’s certainly not the American public or our way of life! And don’t limit the media! That’s our source for everything that is, and will always be, truth.

We need a major social responsibility movement in this country. I don’t mean a “let’s all get together and force some changes” kind of movement either. I mean a national introspection. Something to cleanse us of our two-party sins of the past, accept responsibility for what has happened and help us move forward. Together.

Obama scores another win here by default. He may not inspire everyone, but he has proven that he can inspire someone. I guess it’s a start.

3 and 4) New World Order. (I’m combining analysis on these two because they are addressed on the same stage.) We have a problem. The financial world looks to us for stability. The US economy and its people have traditionally been where the rest of the world puts wealth when it needs a safe haven. As we all know, that myth has been shattered. The economy of the whole world will suffer, but we have to understand that it all started with our housing industry and the ‘house of cards’ that was built upon it. We invented it, and the rest of the world got in on it. They bought in to our way of life; our way of building wealth and our way of enjoying a better life. Now, it is crumbling … and the world-view of our way of life is crumbling right along with it. We are at a crossroads and have to stop the bleeding. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.) We need to lead the world out of this mess.

The US economy will undoubtedly recover well ahead of the rest of the world. Most other countries haven’t even started to understand the depth of the problem, let alone how exposed they are to it. As we recover, it is inevitable that the rest of the world see the American people presented with yet another opportunity to be greedy. We must take the opportunity to show our mettle. We must show that we can lead AND still care about the welfare of the rest of the world. We must once-again prove that we can be a compassionate people.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world has been fed the same bullshit as we have that John McCain is a George Bush crony. Just another American cowboy. So, if McCain is elected, the only people in the world surprised by this will be the American people. Everyone else expects us to elect another politician whose sole objective is to protect American interests at home and abroad without any regard to the ramifications.

If the world-view of us as an American people is of top importance, there is no doubt that we must elect Obama as the next President. Anything else and we will continue to be viewed as a separatist nation.

But does Obama have the experience and ambition to push America as a leader, rather than cater to other nations and wait for direction? Will he know how to deal the continual global conflict (Putin is licking his chops over there … Palin can see him from her house!) and combat threats with disciplined force? Will he know when diplomacy is a waste of time and the situation calls for specific and direct engagement? This is a question in my mind. It seems that he thinks we can negotiate with anyone, or that the entire free world should be involved in dealing with global threats. I know that there are readers thinking that my entire premise here is flawed … "there is no real requirement that we lead. Rather, it’s best that we work together with the world community." Sounds fantastic, but not practical. If we sit back and wait, we will forever be criticized for either waiting too long, not being committed to the cause or not getting involved until our interests were compromised. (See World War II) We need to lead the community effort.

In my mind, it would be hard to deny that John McCain has a clearer understanding of the intricacies of world diplomacy. In fact, I can safely say that if the current administration hadn’t done so much damage to the American image in the global arena, McCain would get my vote on this issue alone. I’m not going to invoke 9/11 into this, but I do believe that our country is still extremely vulnerable. Our current, fragile economic environment heightens our vulnerability. The world has changed, and we cannot lose sight of that. Even if Obama is the greatest statesman this country has ever seen, nothing he says will restore the confidence of our people or the financial strength of this country if another devastating attack occurs.

So, that’s my dilemma. If I put the security of the American people as top priority in this election, I have to vote for John McCain; regardless of the economic consequences or global opinion. Otherwise, if my logic proves correct, the correct choice is Obama.

There is one other thing lurking in the back of my mind that really shouldn’t be a factor but, I have to admit, it is. Currently, we have a Democratic Congress and a Republican President. One of the only things I’ve ever liked about the two-party system is the ability to pit the Legislative and Executive branches of government against one another. When it is working, it keeps the whole process in check. Nothing overly partisan gets through. This worked well in the Clinton years. It has been useless the past few years.

That just might be the bottom line for me. Can I live with casting a vote that helped put a Democratic President in office together with a Democratic Congress and, if so, am I willing to live with the partisan legislation that will result?

The Chevy’s engine might stay cold this November 4th.

Tim....I'm glad you posted the whole thing. It was well worth my time and I absolutely appreciate the fully thought out verse.

One thing to keep in mind--historically our economy has been at its best when we have a Dem in the WH and a GOP Congress. Unfortunately I'm not happy with what Ms Liddy Dole has done for me lately (ranked 93 in effectiveness, according to one of the polls) or I'd vote Republican on that portion of my ballot.

Another thing to keep in mind...bearing in mind McCain's age and health history, could you have as much confidence in Palin as our leader on the world stage?

You are right that we need to be a world leader--I'm not ready for the fall of Rome in my lifetime---but we need to stop picking up the whole tab. When we lead well, we have been able to actually lead. To me these last 5 years or so have felt like we're not leading, we're just doing--whether someone has our back or not.

Sarcky,

I would definitely agree that the past 5 years or so have been no example of leadership on our part. Our direction has been weak and unclear. That's no way to lead.

As far as your point about McCain's age; I simply cannot reasonably take that into consideration. If I have to take fear of the candidate's survivability into consideration, that opens up a whole new issue with Obama and all the crazy idiots in this country that want to make a name for themselves. Honestly, that scares me just as much as McCain's livelihood.

And may (insert your favorite diety here) help us if our choice for President was actually reduced to Biden and Palin.

yep....and on a lighter note, my favorite deity is the remake of the family heirloom

Tim - Loved what ya wrote. Glad you posted the whole thing too. I couldn't agree more with Point 2.

But I hope when it comes to Tuesday you leave the Chevy in the driveway and instead lace up your sneakers and take a good stroll to the polls. It just may be what your body needs to clear your head and casting a vote for one of the two folks.

That's my lame attempt at saying "Please Vote." Otherwise you won't be able to yell at me for the next 4 years - "don't blame me, I voted for McCain."

Or, you won't be able to yell at me for tricking you into voting for Obama.

Baierman -

Thanks for responding. I was beginning to wonder if anyone even read it. I mean, I know Sarcky read it ... but I'm not so sure that her computer doesn't have some kinda autoresponder on it.

I don't think I'll be lacing up the sneakers in my precinct. The voting location is about 10 miles away.

Lets try an experiment.

Take out a penny.
Put it Lincoln side up. (face up)
Flip it.

Now, what you get heads or tails?

That experiment only works half the time.

Abraham Lincoln for prez!

Again!

You flip and you either get heads or tails.
Based on that, I'll tell you who to vote for.

I'll work backwards, giving you the WORST characteristics of both candidates, and then their BEST.

Here are, in my opinion, the strongest arguments against Obama:

He launched his Presidential campaign from the house of his friend, Bill Ayers, an ex-hippie who bombed innocent people, dedicated his autobiography to Sirhan Sirhan, and, following the 2001 attacks, publicly lamented that his organization wasn't as successful as the the WTC terrorists. Some will argue up and down that this is a case of "guilt by association," and it may be. Every politician has dirtbag donors, but McCain doesn't have any associations as close, creepy or influential as Bill Ayers, fundo-whacko Wright, and Tony Rezco.

I have close family ties to Chicago and New Orleans. The corruption in Chicago is worse than N.O., only because it is so damn effective. In N.O., and outsider can, once in a while, navigate the local machine's ineptitude. Obama is a machine politician.

Having said that, if it weren't for dead people voting in '59, we probably wouldn't have had JFK in office in '60. So it is possible that a good guy can get through with his associates playing dirty pool.

Obama's foreign policy is craptacular to Bushian proportions. Even Joe Biden said that, because of Obama's weakness in that area, that we'd probably have a major foreign crisis within the first 6 months of his Presidency. In other words, some rogue nation will put his perceived ineptitude to the test.

Finally, Obama's really weird and persistent opposition to the Born Alive Infant legislation makes you wonder exactly where his head is at regarding the Declaration of Independence. Though not a Constitutional Right, I think we all share the fundamental principle that we have a human right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Not sure where infanticide fits in all of that.

For McCain, to say the old guy is a poll-watcher is an understatement. His most grevious assault on the constitution would have to be the horrible 1st Amendment restrictions foisted upon political campaigns via the well-intended but horribly abusive McCain-Feingold "campaign reform" legislation.

Wonder why $200 million of Obama's funds are untraceable? Have a question about all these uncredited "message ads" that the GOP run? McCain-Feingold not only severely limits political speech, it is a sort of gentleman's agreement to keep the Dems and GOP in power, at the expense of the smaller parties. The old saw used to be "follow the money" but now, thanks to McCain-Feingold, the money is bafflingly difficult to follow.

On a lot of issues, McCain is a passionate fence-sitter. He cherry picks popular issues and implements "solutions" by committee. His "Maverick" status can be traced to a different "M"-word. "Media Darling."

McCain is impossible to track on many issues. For some, this is endearing. For others, this infuriating. He may expand the role of government. He may contract it. He may raise taxes. He may lower them. Personally, I think he is a principled man (I think the same of Obama), but politically, he's a shapeshifting, porkbarrelling people-pleaser.

Okay, now for the good:

Obama can speak very clearly to people about ideals. This sort of ability to inspire can, if applied, have a relatively swift impact on consumer confidence (which benefits the economy), on patriotism, and on innovation. Good speeches aren't fluff: they are an important element of kick-starting policy.

Obama works mainly within Democrat circles. With a Democrat-dominated House and Senate, theoretically, he should be relatively free to implement reform and change in rapid fashion. Of course, as a relative newcomer to Washington with a ready Congress, he runs the risk of bogging everything down, a la Jimmy Carter, but he also has an opportunity to rapidly address energy, economic and military issues if he wants it.

Obama is less of a political leader and more of a consensus manager. His career history is one of study and listening. He really hasn't ever pulled the trigger on anything. However, this style appeals to a lot of people, because it means he's unlikely to pull the trigger on something stupid. As a personal fan of Calvin Coolidge, I must say that there is something important about a President who knows when to "do nothing."

McCain:

McCain has a long history of working with both parties. This makes him a "traitor" in some staunch GOP circles, but it appeals to a lot of people in the middle. This ability will be a VAST improvement in thawing the wall of silence between Dems and Repubs on the hill. It also may make for more balanced governance.

McCain will be strong on foreign policy, but will also probably do a better job of avoiding total war (or ensuring its swiftness and completeness should we get dragged into something.) He's well-liked internationally by world leaders, and, as always, knows how to get along with the opposition without aiding and abetting the enemy. That's a real trick.

McCain's energy plan seems feasible and reasonable to me, just at the nuts and bolts level. Nothing earth-shattering or radical, but functional.

So, I don't know who to tell you to vote for, but I hope this helps. I'm a registered Indecisive.

Vote for Obama.

Already voted---no standing on a 3 hour line for me!!!

I predict that Obama will win in a landslide with the 45 million votes coming out of Chicago.

JFK will be second.

wow...cynical much?

and since JFK survived the Cuban missile crisis, I think he'd actually be a great VP...let's bring him in there---the silent but strong type....

btw, if Cuba can pretend that Fidel is still alive, we can bring in JFK

Just following your lead, Sarcky! Sarcastic, cynical, whatever it takes ...

Besides, I grew up in Chicago. I'm entitled to a strong opine now and then.

Sure beats getting your hopes up and then feeling crushed...cynical sarcasm is one of our many services around here...

And I get the idea that you think there's corruption in Chicago....huh!
Next thing you'll tell me is that moonshine is in one of my neighbor's backyards...

I wanted to stay out of this, but since I've done my duty and voted early.......

Tim, you said "help us if our choice for President were actually reduced to Biden and Palin."

I think the fears for McCain's health/Obama's survivability are unfortunately, probably realistic. I sincerely hope both candidates live long, happy lives. But maybe you should factor in the Vice President......just a thought.

Interesting shadow. Usually they say no one really votes for a VP but in this case, maybe those still on the fence have to consider it.

A side note, I spoke with a few angry GOP folks while in PA this weekend who were all voting for Bob Barr.
A protest vote they claimed since they were angry at the GOP and would not vote for a democrat. Like Nadar in 2000, I wonder if a protest vote will cost the candidates?

Shadow - I hear what you're saying, but do we really know enough about the VP candidates to make such as choice?

I made up my mind this weekend. In this state, my vote will make no difference, but I am heading out early tomorrow and taking my kids with me so that they can see the voting process firsthand.

I believe that Obama will be best for our country in the short-term. I believe that McCain will be better for our overall security. I have serious doubts whether either will live through a full term.

So, I am taking Joe Biden's advice and voting for McCain ... I won't be able to live with my vote for Obama if he is tested and fails. Plus, the very idea of putting a Democratic President in office with a Democratic Congress scares the hell outta me. Not for the near-term, but for the next 20 years or so.

Tim, I completely respect your opinion and decision...
one question, however...if you truly think that neither one has a great chance of living through a full term, are you really comfortable putting Palin in charge?

As much as I like to see glass ceilings being shattered to pieces, I'm not sure if I am comfortable with that particular person breaking that one...

But you have done an excellent job spelling out the ins and outs of both the political system and economy over the last few months, so I promise to listen when you explain to me what skills Sarah has that would allow her to pass the tests that Barack might fail...
(leaving the MYLF component out of it, of course)

Sarcky - Obviously there is a lot more to my decision than what I can spell out here. But, suffice to say, it has a lot more to do with the administration that I feel would be in place to support Palin versus the administration that would be in place to support Biden.

And, honestly, the VP issue is not a factor for me. I refuse to look at it with any real analysis. There simply is not enough information. Does Sarah Palin scare me as President 2 months into a McCain term? Yes. Does Joe Biden scare me as President 2 months into an Obama term? Yes.

I've always stated that I believe the administration is as important as the President. I really believe that McCain will put some good people in place. Obama will as well, but I think he will be more partisan. Let's put it this way ... is it more likely that McCain would ask Obama or Clinton to serve in his administration, or more likely that Obama would ask McCain? Not an important issue, I'll admit, but it does help me decide which candidate I believe will operate a little closer to the political middle ... which is where I am.

Tim - Glad you made your choice. I know you said you were originally for McCain but were kind of leaning against it. Glad you gave me the opportunity to "win your vote." It was a fruitful back and forth and the best use of Forum's to date.
(Dave, thanks for starting the post. Where you been?)

I guess we'll see where the chips fall and sometime next week we'll all get back to focusing on stupid content. At least till May when the race for 2012 starts.

Tim, all that matters is that you're not sitting this one out...but bring something to read--you might be on line awhile....

Thanks Baier and Sarcky. I wish I could say that I was 100% sure about my vote, but I'm not. Nonetheless, I am comfortable with my decision. I guess that's the bottom line.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings. I wish that I could have put my finger on that one point that made it clear why I was leaning one way or the other. There was no such epiphany. In the end, I ended up being selfish and will vote strictly so that I can live with my actions should things unravel. (Otherwise known as hanging on to the 'I told you so' card.)

I sincerely hope that we wake up on Wednesday and the world looks at us differently. I believe electing Obama is the greatest statement we can make that we care about what is happening outside our borders.

If the world was a better place, and our way of life wasn't threatened, it would probably be enough to sway my vote to Obama. In the end, it wasn't. That's a hell of a way to live, but it's reality as far as I'm concerned.

Now let's all sit back and enjoy our democratic process on display. No matter the result, things will be looking better from here.

Unless Florida screws everything up again.

Hey, check this out.

http://www.sayhear.org/

Poll for why you're voting for your candidate. There's phone numbers to call and leave a recorded message.

Some fun on Erection day.

Dave, who'd ya vote for?

Erection day is my favorite day!

Vicky...EVERY day should be erection day.....

I didn't realize that ladies were so open to such traditionally-male ideals.

I think I have a platform for my run in 2012.

Maybe all ladies aren't and my boyfriend should just realize he's damn lucky :-)

But hey, by 2012 Viagra will probably be sold alongside gum at the checkout, so I think it'll be a great platform....might be a little tough to get the lesbians on board, but you'll get the gay male vote...

work to lower the voting age to 15 and the teenage boys will storm the polls...

Nope, nope, that's no good. I'm strictly courting the manly-man and their lovely ladies vote. I'm running with the motto "It's My Erection Day".

I think I'll ask Martina McBride to sing the theme for me. I understand that she already has the tune worked out, I just need to supply some new lyrics.

Sounds good, Tim....your time is coming.....

I'm also trying out the following:

'Bacon for my Men, Pork for my Whoreses'

How about for your campain slogan you use: Tim 2012: The day of Erectioning.

He so completely missed my double entendre there....that never happens!!!

And all of a sudden I'm looking forward to voting in 2012!!!

SP, I will never hear that song the same again....someone do the full parody lyrics for me, please?

No, I got it. Just couldn't think of a witty retort. So, I moved on to something bigger and better.

I've been working on a little something, but got sidelined with my opine on homosexual tendencies and the legal processes that love them.

Oh, and SP, that's pure gold baby!

Guess it's good you're a Republican if you're strongly courting the country vote...apparently if you watch conventions, etc, you're not allowed to listen to country music and vote Democrat...

But you have the college campus vote tied up...and I'll make sure to go back to school again to just watch those patriotic young men campaign their little hearts out (um, yeah--that's what I'm calling it)...

Sarcky - I didn't listen to country music until I saw that my daughters were starting to have the same passion for learning about and enjoying popular music as I did at their age. They love watching music videos as well. From there, it's easy to see that one of the only places to steer them that has any sort of message I can stand was pop-country music. They love listening to Taylor Swift, LeeAnn Rimes, etc ... and I love looking at Sara Evans. It's a win-win.

I can tolerate some of the guys, too. Brad Paisley is pretty damn entertaining.

I never listened til a few years ago (it's moved away from the "country" country to more singer songwriter stuff (the reason why I like James Taylor, Billy Joel, and Harry Chapin) in recent years though).

I love Brad's man song....
and Sara Evans is beautiful...puts on a great concert, too...

I took my wife to the Paisley/Evans tour a few years ago under the guise of seeing Brad Paisley. Funny, I didn't have the binoculers out when he was on stage.

P.S. We were in the tenth row.

I was impressed with Josh Turner as well.

Josh turner sounds like the devil meets johnny cash meets the smoothest bourbon you've ever drunk.

Long Black Train is an awesome song.

Did we just turn Dave's Obama thread into a Country musicfest?

hey, it's post election, so we're back to doing what we do best---taking whatever topic we're supposed to be talking about and running off the road with it to wherever we want to be...

and between Will.i.am and Gretchen Wilson (not to mention Bono, James Taylor, etc), you'd think that all politicians have to have a soundtrack anyway...

So it's decided...Tim in 2012...with Sara Evans as his running mate and Rascal Flatts as his Cabinet...

nix Rascal Flatts, too Ohioey and collegiate. (I'm major anti-OSU.)

How about Montgomery Gentry? Too bad-ass?

um, hell yeah?

Yeah, Troy might be a bit of a liability, but Eddie's a good guy.

Eddie's brother lives about a mile down the street from me. The video for 'My Town' was made not far from here ...

see...that's the great thing about a Cabinet...you name them AFTER you get into office....

and I'm all for MG as Cabinet...was referencing my favorite song of theirs...

If you're gonna dream, dream big...just don't nominate Paris or Britney to the Supreme Court and we're okay...but Megan Fox would be okay...even as a straight girl I have to admit she's just plain hot.

Yes, I know ... it was the question mark that gave it the double meaning.

Megan Fox, not enough staying power. Besides, I don't find her all that hot.

I'll have the think some more on the Cabinet.

Megan isn't hot?
Really?
Is it the gorgeous blue eyes or the great boobs that turns you off?

It's the attitude and the way she carries herself. No good for me. Gotta have the whole package!

Okay...I've only seen pictures, haven't seen any of her Oscar winning films--haha...